Raven Guard 30K Tactica

Victorus Aut Mortis - A 30K Raven Guard Tactica

The Horus Heresy a is huge reason Warhammer 40K is such a good game. So I approach playing 30K as historical gaming in the Warhammer 40K universe. As a player, 30k is attractive, as the rule set is more similar between armies and thus more balanced and based on tactics. As a hobbyist, the fluff of this era is so deep, it's easy to become consumed with an army concept. 

It's was a hard, but you have to make a choice. I chose the XIXth Legion. The Raven Guard.  

"The Raven Guard are equal part light and Dark - quick to exact justice and retribution upon the tyranny and the oppressor by striking from the shadows with lightning speed and shocking strength."

As a legion they are basically the Ninjas of Terra mixed with the Spec Ops of Deliverance. Who wouldn't want to play that army? 

As a player, I'm a calculated risk taker. I've been playing 40K since rogue trader and play a lot of the big tournaments and have won a lot of them. So this tactica will be for the tournament minded. 

Raven Guard Articles:


Brojob said...

Hi. I really like the look of your 1850 point list that you used against Iron Warriors; I hope you don't mind me using it as a foundation for my own list. What are your thoughts on replacing the Caestus with a Darkwing Storm Eagle? Also, how would you raise the points up to 2000 and 3000? For 2000 points, I think throwing in a recon squad with shotguns and meltabombs could be a decent option.
Thanks, your articles have helped me get some grip on the Raven Guard's incredibly flexible tactics.

Brojob said...

Sorry for the double post, but how do you typically deal with armor? The list you posted seems really strong against infantry, but the Caestus and the two combimeltas on the rhinos seem like the only ranged anti-armor you have.
Thanks again

deFl0 said...

@ Brojob

One of my major tactics against armor is infiltrating 20 man tac squad with a chaplain. Re roll to hit with krack grenades is great against most transports.

For bigger stuff, the chain fists often chop it down.

That said, I have been moving away from the termies and towards 6 grav cannon rapiers paired with 2 mor deythan flamer squads. I also find that the typhon really fits well with these units.

As for cestus vs darkwing. They are both solid choices. I find the cestus usually lasts a fight, but deredeo dreadnoughts are becoming much more common. The big pick up with Darkwings are the out flanking. This usually gets around the dreads 45 degrees of fire.

Brojob said...

Thanks for the tips. Would you mind giving feedback to a list whenever I get around to making one?

Parker Reed said...

I have read through your tacticas at least twice on all and they are great. I played my first heresy game a couple days ago with my BaC box and it was a blast! I also learned Word Bearers are RIDICULOUS. With dark channeling and the ability to have zealot on ALL your tac squads, without needing a chaplain is crazy. He had 2 blobs of tacs with apothecaries, diabolist that was a demon, 5 gal vorbak, contemptor in a pod, 5 plasmas in a rhino. I was running:
Praetor - cataphractii, digi lasers, chainfist (sorry it's BaC man lol) - also PotL RoW
centurion - chappy, artificer armor, axe, melta bomb, refractor, cameoline
20 tacs - claw/arty/mb srg, vex
10 vet tacs - 2x HB, srg w/combi-plas & fist, sniper tactics
apothecary - arty armor
contemptor w/kheres and graviton gun
5 terminators - srg raven's talons, dude w/double claws, claw/hf, chainfist/bolter, fist/bolter
5 heavy weapons team - 4 meltas, augury scanner sergeant

Was a great game, we just played kill points. I ended up winning 5-3. The big tac blobs with characters got into combat turn 2 and were fighting the ENTIRE game and it wasn't done when it finished turn 5...That squad is SO resilient I will probably take it every game!

Thanks again for your tacticas!

deFl0 said...

Thanks Parker! LMK if there are any articale in particular you are looking for. Always looking for new concepts to write about.

Parker Reed said...

I really enjoy your unit break downs! Helps me decide what units I will purchase in the future. Right now I just have one BaC box, but I think I might go for one more BaC box to get all the power armor done with and just get some different arms, jump packs, etc to make whatever units I want lol

For me I want to know what FW vehicles are worth it so I don't waste my money. I'm thinking a Storm Eagle for my terminators, but I like your inclusion of the Caestus - really dig the model.

Brojob said...

Have you run masters of signal, vigilators, or seekers with RG yet? They seem like they would synergize with the army well. Beyond the sabotage, vigilators could give scout to a Mor Deythan unit if they are attached to one. That could lead to getting into a good position turn 1, but I wonder if that would also result in overextension that would get the Mor Deythan cut off from the rest of the RG's advance.

Ryan Randall said...

Hey mate, about to get into a slow grow and are starting with kill team, I was thinking of a mix of mor deythan and a couple of land speeders, what you think?

deFl0 said...

@ BroJob.

I've actually run them all.

I've been running Vigilators a lot recently with the new Recon ROW as they give shrouding to jump pack units. They are also especially good with Breachers as you can get them into range turn one with their grav guns.

As for master of signals, I don't feel like he adds much. I wish he gave reserve re rolls or something. He can help with deepstrike with his Vox but you can pick those up in tons of squads... So why pay the charter tax?

I should write an article on seekers. I used to love them, but now you can't drop in and stay in a pod as a bunker. So they are much more vulnerable now. That said, there is some synergy with decapitating strike and percussion strike and I love spamming 3" templates at rapid fire range.

deFl0 said...

@ Ryan Randall

I love it!

Sure that would totally be fun. I've played a lot at the 400 point level at Adepticon. Small games are great for getting an idea of how powerful something can be. Zone mortalis or even necromunda are great rule sets too for small games.

Kill teamis interesting because every guy is his own unit. Mor Deythan would be awesome because they have great weapon options and can totally unique individuals.

Anonymous said...

Can you do some vs articles for how to deal with each of the other legions?

deFl0 said...

Tricky, but yeah. Maybe a "know your enemy series". It's a great idea. I can bang that out. What's legions you thinking about?

deFl0 said...

Tricky, but yeah. Maybe a "know your enemy series". It's a great idea. I can bang that out. What's legions you thinking about?

Anonymous said...

I was primarily thinking of how to use raven guard tactics against specific traitor legions.

deFl0 said...

Which one?

deFl0 said...

Which one?

Peter Wisniewski said...

I'm glad I stumbled into this blog. Creating my first Raven Guard 30k army, heck, my first 30k army period. I'm not sure what to take yet, but I'm sure I'll have a good idea after extensively reading your blog. Some basic builds would be helpful, to know what I should begin collecting.


deFl0 said...

Hi Peter.

Pete's are always welcome ;)

Check out the new beginner guide I put up.

I'll put some list up soon as well. LMK if you have any specific questions.

Anonymous said...

Hey Peter! Dont know how many times i have read through your tacticas. Probably numbering on 10 or so haha. Just have a question:

For the one heavy support choice, i was thinking of taking a Sicaran Battle Tank but not sure how fluff or even useful that is with a RG list. Im using a list very similar to yours mentioned in the tacticas but instead of 10 termies, im using 10 Dark Fury's. Ive been tossing up a lot between using a sicaran or using a squad of 10 multi-melta/lascannons as my HS choice and infiltrating them up and using them to take out enemy tanks. What do you reckon?

Ill post my list below to assist you. Feedback on the list wouldnt be bad either :)

1x Alvarex Maun
1x Chaplain

5x Tactical Support Squad w/ meltaguns
5x Tactical Support Squad w/ plasma guns
10x Tactical Squad
20x Tactical Squad

5x Mor Deythan w/ combi-flamers in Rhino
5x Mor Deythan w/ combi-flamers in Rhino

10x Dark Fury

1x Sicaran Battle Tank OR Heavy Support Squad

Thanks a lot :)

deFl0 said...

The Raven Guard were a full on legion with their own forgeworld pumping out vehicles and the like for them. So they should have plenty of every unit. After the Drop Zone massacre Raven Guard were more limited in their resources but still had reserve units and vehicles back at Deliverance, which were broken down into talons. So the fluff supports the ability to field just about anything.

Tactically, I really like Sicarians. I play a bit of white scars in 40K and am a long time eldar player, so I really like scoot and shoot units. The sicarian is a nice addition to RG force because you usually have to push so much of your army forward to be effective. A sicarian has great Range and it can be mobile, so it can stay alive and be flexible though out the game. The one downside IMO is that you have to deploy it. So it's a little bit of an awkward fit for a full infiltrating force. But that said, you can use it to try to bait your opponent into a bad deployment. In any case, I suggest running it with lascannons.

In contrast, a hvy support squad is wonderful because you can deloy it after your opponent, so you can usually set up side shots against vehicle and the like. I try to give them good lanes of fire and usually try to deploy them away from the major objectives, so it forces your opponent to have to choose to go kill them or stay the objectives. So if you take this unit, thinking of how you are placing objectives is REALLY important. Again, RANGE is your protection. With lascannons or missile launcher you can largely deploy out of harms way. In general, you want to stay outside of bolter range because its a bad trade.

A MM squad is a whole different beast but can be good in an area denial list. So deploy centrally to maximize their threat area. In general, a MM unit is a little odd to field as you need to be within 12" to get your extra melta die. As a heavy you can't really dump them out of a vehicle. A vigilator could get you to exactly that 12" mark but it's kinda clunky of a tactic on the table. So honestly, I think you would be better off with a drop pods with a melta gun support squad.

So in conjuntion with your list, you have Maun, and I'm assuming decap strike, so the Multi Melta option isn't great with a alpha strike.

On a final tactical note, a sicarian is a pretty big tank and it's fast, so you could completely hide a Dark Fury squad behind it as you move the unit up the board. So consider using it as movable LOS blocking terrain.

Anonymous said...

Yeah list is definitely running Decap Strike. One of the biggest problems i couldnt get my head around was thinking how i could divert fire from the Dark Fury's once they dropped in so they didnt get destroyed before they charged. That idea with the Sicarian is a pretty smart and tactical fix! I like it!

Completely understand and agree with regards to the Multi-Meltas. Might stick with the Sicarian and just expand my Tactical Support Squads and put them in drop pods.

Just a quick question again haha. What units, and in which order do you try to eliminate first off. I remember reading this somewhere but cant find it.

I feel like using Mor Deythan to get rid of Tactical squads so that they cant retaliate your Alpha Strike with FotL is good but i feel like its a waste of MD's. So yeah, just had that question.

Thanks a lot mate! You helped a lot :)

deFl0 said...

Target priority always has to do with what you are running, but most RG lists are pod or infiltrate centric so they tend to deploy well but are slow to redeploy. Thus,I usually focus on killing transports, especially if there is a spartan with an expensive squad inside.

Things like mor deythan are great at killing 2+ Save units or big mobs. Really anything infantry that is dangerous against your list should be your target.

However, if you are running a list with fliers,killing anti air is usually highest priority.

Fredrik Brekke said...

Hey Pete, I recently discovered your blog and have been devouring your RG content over the past couple of days. Always great to find another person who loves the XIX Legion :D

I haven't had the chance to actually PLAY any 30k yet, but I love list-building and have been tinkering with a fluffy (and not necessarily competitive) RG list that I can bulk up to various points levels; I was wondering if you could take a look at the 1850 pts version and give me your thoughts.

RoW: Legion Recon Company

-Alvarex Maun (No upgrades)

-20x Tactical Marines (Extra CCWs)
-10x Recon Marines (Shotguns, Melta Bombs)
-10x Recon Marines (Shotguns, Melta Bombs)
-7x Tac Support Marines (Volkite Calivers)
-7x Tac Support Marines (Volkite Calivers)

-10x Mor Deythan (Combi-Plasmas)
-10x Mor Deythan (Combi-Plasmas)

The basic game plan would be to have Maun hopefully secure me the first turn then hunker down with the Tactical Squad at a particular objective, the Recon Squads target any high-priority targets (ie big scary vehicles), the Mor Deythan target any TEQs or high-threat MEQs, and for the Tac Support Squads to be a general-purpose nuisance with their 30" threat bubbles.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

deFl0 said...

Ok. So a couple thoughts. Mor Deythan are special in that they give a weapon rending and twin linked for a turn. Plasma is already Ap2, so it's already better than rending.

Something like Flamers don't have rending, so the points you are paying on them are "in use". Plus Flamers ignore cover and rending & ignore cover is a scary combo AND twin linked with flamers is re roll to wound. Add a rhino and now you are shooting into position.

Plasma is great. So consider it on though tac supports or take a unit of plasma combi seekers.

Personally, I haven't had a ton of success with volkites and Raven Guard. They tend to be a weapon you use to grind a unit down over a couple turns. I'm usually trying to do it in one and then running away :)

As for the 20 tacs, they are a grind unit. You need a chaplain for them to work or they get beaten, broken and run down. Fearless is king in 30k.

Finally, the Recons. Keep an eye on the new 40k faq. Ifor it ends up that you get a single melta bomb attack for the whole squad... it might end up a poor unit. Otherwise, I love the unit.

Finally, give maun cameleoline. Always worth the points. Same with a boarding shield for the chaplain ;)

Fredrik Brekke said...

Thanks for your thoughts! I actually didn't know there was a new FAQ/errata, that grenade change is gonna alter my approach to RG anti-tank a LOT :(

As for the Mor Deythan: it might be a mistake but I care much more about the "twin-linking" part of their special ability than the "rending" part, my thinking was that twin-linking their combi-plasmas would maximize the one-time use, and effectively remove the Gets Hot! risk. Still I've seen the combi-flamer choice all over the internet so it obviously works right?

Finally, from a fluffy point, how do you feel about going "zero vehicle" with RG? As in only using infantry, jump infantry, bikes and jetbikes?

deFl0 said...

Well, the FAQ is not official yet, so maybe it will change, but I wouldn't hold your breath. It really screws up a lot of my Anti-tank concepts as well.

As for twin linking. Mor Deythan are already BS 5 so you don't get a huge uptick in hits. Seekers are also basically 2+ to hit with a re roll and they are usually 2+ to wound with a re roll as well. As for support tacs. You are talking 305 (10 Mor Dyethan) vs 325 (10 support tacs) and teh support tacs out perform the mor deythan over 2 turns of shootings. But anyway, the flamers are the real deal especially because of the damage they do to units in cover. It's pretty easy to do 60 wounds to a big squad and have 10 of them rending, compared to 20 plasma shots having half their wounds blocked by cover.

Finally, YES. Zero vehicle is totally doable and fluffy. Especially for a post Isstavan force. I really like the Recon ROW. Vigilators really make a lot of those units super viable. That said, I do think Rhinos are very powerful. So I use a hovering rhino model to make it feel more RG ish ;)

Cody said...

Reader discretion advised. Wall'o'Text incoming.

Hey Pete, I've been reading this Tactica for about 6 months now and have really appreciated the general fluff and list knowledge that you have provided here. So thanks for that.

On another note, someone posted earlier about an article on how to deal with certain legions and he never replied which one he was looking for. I'm pretty sure he wanted one for all of the traitor legions but that seems like a lot of writing. So let me tell you the problem that I have in my local play group.

First off the main group of players in my area are fluffy and have fun sorts but there are a few that are power gamers, but in a good way. High skilled and very experienced tourny players in 40k that play 30k for the fluff and cool factor. That being said the two legions/players that I have had a problem with so far have been Word Bearers and Lune Wolves/Sons of Horus. So let me give you and idea of the lists they run.

Word Bearers:


Psyker Mastery lvl 2 with Burning Lore (summoning)
Psyker Mastery lvl 2 with Burning Lore (buffer)

2x 20 Tacs with Apothecary

2x10 Gal Vorbak


Erebus Transfigured

So the idea for the list is that he foot slogs with the tacs and one squad of Gal Vorbak and then puts the other Gal Vorbak squad, Erebus Lorgar and the buffing Psyker in the Spartan and Deathstars with that.

The Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus:

This guy just shoves Veterans and Justaerin termies down your throat with Horus and a fire raptor for support.

The main problem I have is getting through the Death stars that are in both lists. I have podded in Two seeker squads with combi-plasma on the Gal Vorbak before and I think I killed two and wounded another with one wound on Lorgar. Look out Sirs suck. And he told me after I scouted my Mor Deythan forward that we weren't using ITC rules because they usually don't pair well with 30k. So I think I put one wound on a Gal Vorbak with bolter fire. Invisibility sucks.


Death stars are a problem for RG, I have found.

Luke Morton said...

Combi Flamers amazing for clearing infantry but we already have great options for that . Combi plasmas on mordeythan a great way for alpha striking armour just saying :)

deFl0 said...

Hi Cody! Thanks for posting. First off, I do plan on doing a review of the traitor legions and tactics against them. I pushed it back a bit since they all just got a big rule reboot and I want to get is some games against them.

That said, I'll post something up on fighting Death Stars. You've made good points. Raven Guard can't go toe to toe with Death Stars which is normally not a problem because we can usually shoot them off the board. Not the case with Gal Vorbak with invisibility and pyschic buffs to their invul saves.

I'll post something up soon

AdriCreativo said...

Hi Pete,

thank you very much for all the valuable RG input. It led me buying 2 squads Mor Deythan +2 squads Dark Fury + Corax + 2 Rhinos + Betrayal at Calth Box and a Stormeagle. I should have some choices for a competitive army build now isn't it? How do I get Alvarex Maun, could not find him anywhere! Thanks again!

deFl0 said...

Sounds like a great start! You should be able to put together some great armies.

Forge World has not put out a model for Alvarex Maun yet. So most people convert him.

Joseph Limitone said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joseph Limitone said...

Final Update !

Space Marines:Raven Guard Warhammer 30k Master of Legion: Decapitation Strike 2495PTS

Primarch: Corax 450PTS

HQ:Praetor: / Jump Pack / Pair of Claws upgrade to Talons / Iron Halo / Paragon Blade / Digital Lasers / Master Craft PTS 210

HQ:Consul:Medicae: Artificer Armor / Refractor Field / Jump Pack PTS 125

Elites:Veteran Tactical Squad(10): Artificer Armor / Vexilla /(2) Heavey Bolters and Suspensor Webs / Power Fist / Plasma Pistol PTS 265

Elites:Terminator Squad (5): Cataphracii Armor / (3) Pair of Claws upgrade to talons / (2) Power Fists / Heavey Flamer / Grenade Harnass PTS 290

Elites:Apthecarion(1):Attached to Tactical / (1) Artificer Armor / PTS 55

Troop:Assault Squad(10): Artificer Armor / Pair of claws upgrade to Talons / PTS 215

Troop:Tactical Squad(10): Artificer Armor / Vox / Vexilla / Melta Bomb PTS 160

Troop:Tactical Support(5): Artificer Armor / (5) Meltagun's PTS 185

Heavey Suppport:Heavey Support Squad (5): Artificer Armor / (5) Missle Lauchers / Augury PTS 175

Fast Attack: Dark Wing: 250PTS

Dedicated Transport (3): Drop Pods PTS 105

Luke Morton said...

Pete you gona do a review with the new rules ? Cheers pal

deFl0 said...

I'm slowly going back through the articles and upgrading them.

Honestly, almost nothing changed for most units. Even with the prices changes it largely doesn't change how you would use them. And since most of the best Raven Guard units are infantry, things just got better :p

I do have to update a couple ones in particular though, like seekers. And I should write something up on a couple units that are much better like speeders, apothecaries and assault squads.

A bunch of articles are coming though ;)

Luke Morton said...

With vigilators what point in te recon armour as you can't infiltrate units with characters because characters join units after set up no ? You can scout them but chararcters can't infiltrate them or have I missed something in an FAQ ? Cheers pal

Luke Morton said...

Also just read the bike/jetbike section great read. And some great food for thought. Only thing is command squads can't have combi weps but now they are cheaper and apocathry even cheaper on bikes 65pts ! That unit can be nasty ! What character would you take to get the command squad ? Preator kitted out or a cheap delacuis dude cheers pal

deFl0 said...

So vigilators can join Ravenguard infantry because they both have infiltrate. Thus they can give an infiltrating unit scout.

deFl0 said...

Yup. Command squads can only get combi bolters now :(

I personally like them with a praetor as the paragon blade is always solid.

That said, lightnings claws and a fractal harrow blade is an interesting choice.

In general, if I run a delegatus, I'm running it to save points, so adding a company command squad is not something I normally do.

deFl0 said...

Yup. Command squads can only get combi bolters now :(

I personally like them with a praetor as the paragon blade is always solid.

That said, lightnings claws and a fractal harrow blade is an interesting choice.

In general, if I run a delegatus, I'm running it to save points, so adding a company command squad is not something I normally do.

Luke Morton said...

I mean vigilators in jump infantry they no longer have infiltrate for likes of assault marines and dark furies

Luke Morton said...

Fair enough :p I run my preator with fist /paragon blade . However been thinking aside from blood Angels and white scars Raven guard third best option for taking power fist bike command squad. I guess iron hands can do it well as they are morsurvivable with the 3up invun on the hq and -1 str on the guns shoring them.

deFl0 said...

True. Vigilators can no longer give assault marines or dark fury infiltrate, but they can give them move through cover, stealth and scout. And scout combines with the recon ROW to give you shrouding. So it's strong in that scenario, as you basically start out with a 2+ cover save and 12" up the board.

Agreed on the Bike command squad. Not a lot of the legions get much out of that option, but Raven Guard do the powerfists on bikes pretty well.

Luke Morton said...

Recon ROW worth it tho. Tax on 3 squads of recon marines which not doing much now especially now you can only use one melta bomb in combat :(

deFl0 said...

None of the tournaments in US or groups I've played in use the FAQs in 30k...

That said, 2 tac squads are 250 and 3 recons are 300. So it's a 50 pt tax. You get 5 less marines, but you get 3 scoring units, and unlike tacs you can take 3 combi weapons. It's really not a bad trade for the rules.

Luke Morton said...

Would you not pay for stealth on all 3 units ? And maybe snipers ? Combi weps on the sergants ?

deFl0 said...

Nope. Nope. And yes of sgt.

sniper rifle is simply not worth that many points... Neith is camo.

Luke Morton said...

Ok cool bolters then? Combi melta for tank hunting considering we already excel at killing infantry . Thanks for the quick replys pal

Luke Morton said...

Also would you stick recons in rhinos now rhinos can have multi meltas . Good scouting/infiltrating multi melta and combi melta combo ?

deFl0 said...

Combi melta scouts unit in a scouting vehicle with a multi melta is a very tried and true 40k scout tactic. It works a lot better in 40k though because you have more scoring units. Bit it is very aggressive and very offensive minded. But if your list concept is to have them in a rhino already, it's totally worth taking the multi melta.

So it really depends on your list.

In general, I use my recons as objective campers that are dangerous enough for area denial. I rarely use them offensively. But my opponents rarely drive their spartans at my recons with melta bombs... (we don't use the faqs).

I would much rather spend the points on units like Mor Deythan, that are doing a lot more damage per squad and squad member.

In general, i would probably want to spend the points elsewhere.

Luke Morton said...

Tried making a recon ROW let me know what you think. Think rhinos rolling around with meltas with 2up cover first turn is nasty but think your write points can be spent elsewhere better. 3 melta rhinos should be enough anyway :p

Raven Guard 2000
Legiones Astartes

Vigilator: scout armour; combat shield; jump pack 110

Praetor: Rite of War (Legion Recon Company); paragon blade; power fist; digital lasers; iron halo; Space Marine bike 210

5 Reconnaissance Marines: Reconnaissance Sergeant; 4 Reconnaissance Marines 100

5 Reconnaissance Marines: Reconnaissance Sergeant; 4 Reconnaissance Marines 100

5 Reconnaissance Marines: Reconnaissance Sergeant (combi-weapon; artificer armour); 4 Reconnaissance Marines; melta bombs 145
• Rhino: dozer blade; multi-melta 55

6 Mor Deythan: Mor Deythan Shade (artificer armour; combi-weapon); 5 Mor Deythan; 3 × combi-weapon (flamer); 2 × plasma gun 223
• Rhino: dozer blade; multi-melta 55

6 Mor Deythan: Mor Deythan Shade (artificer armour; combi-weapon); 5 Mor Deythan; 3 × combi-weapon (flamer); 2 × plasma gun 223
• Rhino: dozer blade; multi-melta 55

Apothecarion Detachment
• Apothecary: jump pack 60

10 Dark Furies: Chooser of the Slain (melta bombs); 9 Dark Furies 330

3 Outriders: power weapon; melta bombs 115

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter: 2 × 2 kraken penetrator heavy missiles; ground-tracking auguries 215

1,996 points

deFl0 said...

Solid list. I like it a lot.

- Recon squads, I'm beginning to like a hand flamer on the sgt and shot guns on the unit.
- I think you are a little light on tank hunting. Remember that Kraken are haywire, so you are in the remove alh hull points games. 2 missiles isn't goign to do that. I see a couple units with melta bombs, which might work, but you have a couple odd multi use units. Are you really goign to charge your outriders are a tank with your Praetor attached to them?
- Not sure you need the Rhino on the 3rd recon squad.
- So while I like the outriders, You might have more luck with 3 speeders with multi melta and grav which costs the same points as 3 outriders, the recon rhino and the recon melta bombs. 5 grav and 3 multi meltas can do a lot of vehicle damage. Plus you might be able to find some points for a couple more kraken missiles. I guess the Praetor would jump with the dark fury. Or you swap the Lightning for 3 speeders, which gives you more of a glass hammer strike.

Luke Morton said...

True :p I was thinking scouting the preator with the outriders to get the 2up jink then splitting off second turn. The lighting has 4missles already :) 2x2. I don't face armoured ceramite that much so just scout the rhinos up to get in melta range to take out non armoured ceremitw or light vechiles. The preator should be able to hunt armour to with his 7 str9 attacks on charge. Wielding powerfist/paragon blade to suit all combats :). Thanks tho love the speeder idea I'll give it a go . Cheers for the rapid replys

Luke Morton said...

Fire raptors got a boost now that hellstrike missles are str 8 ap2 sunder heavy 1 !! You have other suggestions for strong flyers now lots have been opened up in Lord of war and your reasoning why cheers pal!

Marc said...

What is your opinion on Javelin land speeders?

deFl0 said...

Just posted an article on them ;) I'll update the pictures in it tomorrow. Lmk what you think.

Luke Morton said...

I want Land speeders now !

cogetama said...

Your articles are great. Thank you very much for all the effort and hard work you put into this. If I get into 30k I will certainly take Raven Guard and build a force around two alpha striking Mor Deythans in Rhinos. All thanks to you.

deFl0 said...


They work like a charm. Plus it's just fun to pull out that many flamers ;)

Unknown said...

Sokar pattern stormbird?

deFl0 said...

You looking for a tactics article on it?

Anonymous said...

Hi. Do you think a ground based, pride of the legion list could work? I currently own a spartan, 9 outriders, a javelin, and rhino. I'm thinking that a unit of veterans could ride in the rhino, terminators could ride in the spartan, and a blob of tacticals could infiltrate with chameoline. Bikers and Mor Deythan or Dark Furies could skirt the flanks. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Pretty much.

Unknown said...

I'm interested in Heavy Support squads,
mainly the Heavy Flamer one and a Plasma Cannon one.

Plasma can be used in an anti tank role, with a Siege Breaker added will help them with Tank Hunter.

Heavy Flamers I would run in a 5-10 man squad, with a chaplain added.

Any ideas to further work on this?

Rhaivaen said...

Î am the above poster, changed my name.

I am intending to run Rite of War: Legion Recon Company, and I will be using Raven Guard for my own Legion XI Desert Lions.


deFl0 said...

"Hi. Do you think a ground based, pride of the legion list could work? I currently own a spartan, 9 outriders, a javelin, and rhino. I'm thinking that a unit of veterans could ride in the rhino, terminators could ride in the spartan, and a blob of tacticals could infiltrate with chameoline. Bikers and Mor Deythan or Dark Furies could skirt the flanks. Thanks."

- Vets are great in a rhinos. I would take marksmen. I like the missile launchers shooting out of the top, plasma guns also works. Finally, combi flamers are REALLY good. It's the same rending trick as Mordeythan.

- Tac blob works well in this list as immediate pressure. Most armies will be hard pressed to deal with 20 guys charging turn two and a spartan closely on their heels. The other thought is a vigi + 20 beachers and 4 grav guns.

- Javs are OK. I see a lot of people run the lascannons. I think the missiles are superior for the points.
- Outriders are tricky. They are overpriced. That said, they can take power axes and are S6 on the charge. So if you work in a forgelord on a bike with rad grenades you can oblit S4 termies on the charge. Plus on a bike he can take a grav gun that he can move and shoot with!

Also could combo that with the spartan if you take power axes on the termies. Works well with Tartaros. Cataphractii I tend to go chain fists and combi meltas.

deFl0 said...

"I'm interested in Heavy Support squads, mainly the Heavy Flamer one and a Plasma Cannon one. Plasma can be used in an anti tank role, with a Siege Breaker added will help them with Tank Hunter. Heavy Flamers I would run in a 5-10 man squad, with a chaplain added. Any ideas to further work on this?"

Hi Rhaivaen,

So hvy flamers are cool, but you will get A LOT more out of Mor Deythan with combi flamers or vets with combi flamers. Both can access rending, which gives you a great way to clear infantry out of cover. You would be better incorporating heavy flamers into these types of squads if they can take them.

Plasma cannons are pretty good to for what they do. I think they are good as anti termi hunting at long range, but many 2+ units are 2W in 30k so S7 is frustrating. S7 is frustrating as a tank hunting weapon. Even with a siege breaker. What a siege breaker adds though other than tank hunter is his nuncio vox. Plasma cannons are really good at dealing with most deepstriking threats.

That said, most RG force aren't really occupying ground that you are trying to keep pods from attacking...

So, overall, RG have better ways of dealing with 2+ save infantry and vehicles... but plasma cannons are never bad. But S7 AP2 is always just one Str away from what you really want :p

Anonymous said...

Hi. Do you think assault squads are good for RG as compulsory troops, now that they have had a price reduction?


deFl0 said...

They are a lot better than they were. The bigger issue is that even with furious charge, they really don't hit hard by 30k standards...

If you play without the melta bomb FAQ, they are rediculously good tank hunters, especially with a chaplain.

But with the FAQ, I think they are really only good as tar pits. With a chaplain and an apothecary, they can really tie units up. Resistant if you have points to sitting for the shields.

All that said, infiltrating TAC squads can also tar pit and are a fraction of the points.

In short, they are totally usable, but be scary how you use them. I really like them in my Angels wrath list with hit and run.

Anonymous said...

I read a tactica about Kaedes Nex a few months ago and became interested in Raven guard ... but when I read another tactica he now has only 12 bullets. But is he still good to use? As you know, his concept is really cool! And it is not that expensive either.

And ... I thought of this Raven Guard list, is this a useful list? I do not know about Heresy, in fact, I have never played Space Marine! I played Eldar mostly at 40K ... so I do not know if I think this list is good or bad.

++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Legion Centurion [105pts]: Cameleoline, Infravisor, Power Armour
·· Consul: Siege Breaker

Strike Captain Alvarex Maun [150pts]: Cameleoline, Infravisor

+ Elites +

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery [180pts]: 2x Legion Rapier, Phosphex Canister Shot, Shatter Shell

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [225pts]
·· Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: Graviton Cannon
·· Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: Graviton Cannon
·· Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: Graviton Cannon

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [150pts]
·· Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: Graviton Cannon
·· Legion Rapier Weapons Battery: Graviton Cannon

Mor Deythan Strike Squad [210pts]: 5x Combi-weapon, 4x Mor Deythan
·· Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer Blade

+ Troops +

Legion Tactical Squad [170pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
·· Additional Wargear: Bolters, Nuncio-vox
·· Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolter

Legion Tactical Squad [165pts]: 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
·· Additional Wargear: Bolters
·· Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer Blade
·· Legion Tactical Sergeant: Bolter

Legion Tactical Support Squad [210pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Space Marines
·· Entire Squad may exchange their Flamers for:: Flamer
·· Legion Sergeant: Bolt Pistol

Legion Tactical Support Squad [210pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 4x Legion Space Marines
·· Entire Squad may exchange their Flamers for:: Meltagun
·· Legion Sergeant: Bolt Pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Heavy Support Squad [275pts]: Lascannon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Legion Space Marines
·· Legion Sergeant: Augury Scanner

+ Legion +

Legiones Astartes: XIX: Raven Guard, Loyalist

Rite of War: Decapitation Strike

+ Lords of War +

Corvus Corax [450pts]

++ Total: [2500pts] ++

I want to use a lot of artillery to destroy the opponent's vehicle and infantry. Corax would like to use it to finish the opponent weakened by shooting. However, I'm not sure if this list is suitable for this type of play. May I ask your advice if you do not mind?

deFl0 said...

Sure. Your list is a very heavy alpha strike list, which is appropriate if you want to go artillery heavy.

Remember that Mor Deythan score, so you might consider swapping some of the tac support for more More Deythan. 5 rending, re roll to wound flamers will do a lot more damage than a flamer tac support for example.

You also don't need you heavy support squad in a rhino. You want them infiltrated in on foot so they can all shoot first turn.

It's not a typical Raven Guard force, but one that seems appropriate with a siege breaker in it.

Anonymous said...

I really appreciate your advice! There was no one around me playing the raven guard at 30K, so it was hard to hear this advice. But, I have a few questions, can I ask more questions?

1.siege breaker is a little-used guy in raven guard? I thought he could give a lot of help to the raven guard.

2. I like Mor Deythan because they look really cool and are actually strong! However, Rapier can not be removed from Raven guard(...I think) and there are not enough slots to place Mor Deythan.

3. If I use the Decapitation Strike, I get a Preferred Enemy (IC). Unlike what I think, Tac Supports do not seem to be used much in raven guards. What's wrong with them?

4. People around me said that they do not need to use Graviton so much, they are useless for infantry, and are only useful for crushing tanks.
But I think I have to tear down my opponent's tanks on the first turn, and you know that Lightning is pretty expensive! (£ 83 ...)
What do you think?

5. Corax does not seem to be a character to fight against Firedrake, Red Butcher. So I would like to move him quickly to break down the tank in the back, or to kill his opponent's weak infantry. Corax is suitable for that purpose?

deFl0 said...

1. So the siege breaker is solid but you have to take a good squad for him. Infiltrating support squads are a good fit, but expensive and in a decap list you are using your 1 HVY on this unit, which is hard to some generals to swallow.

I personally think they are really good with castellax! Sure they can already take tank hunter but if gives you some flexibility to take other options on your castellax.

Phosphex medusa are also very good, although I think you are better off taking phosphex with rapiers.

2. The elite slot is tricky for Raven Guard. I usually go 2 mor deythan and two units of grav rapiers. That said, you have options. Speeders, contemptors in pods and breachers can all bring a lot of turn 1 grav shots, which can open up some options. Also, marksmen Vets in pods are a good more deythan alternative.

3. Nothing is wrong with them. They are good for their price, but you have to compare them to other units in cost and function. So support tac flamers are done better by mor deythan and vets. Support tac volkite are not as good as mor deythan or flamer vets at clearing infantry. Support tac plasma are good and cheap, but seekers with combi plas do more single turn damage and scorpius bolt seekers can infiltrate and are cheaper for just eliminating 2+ armor save infantry. Finally, melta are great, but a lot of lists are all ceremite... so their value varies on your opponent. So with Raven guard you often don't see the in lists, because the general is focussing on a specific use case where other units are slightly better. I use melta support tacs and plasma support tacs in some higher level point lists.

4. Depends on what you are trying to do. Grav are very specific, but most list bring armor. If you are playing alpha strike Raven Guard, killing a spartan turn 1 is basically a necessity. Infiltrating grav units is very powerful for Raven Gaurd and almost no one else can do it. You can alternatively go down the path of high str/ low AP weapons. It works, but it tends not to infiltrate adn even when it does, it's hard to give it a multiplier like tank hunter, which is what a lot of other legion do...

Lightnings are great, but they are delayed coming on the board, which is why they don't really work for alpha strike lists against deathstar list. Personally, I don't like the lightning model... I hate IG units in space marine lists from an aesthetic perspective. Instead, I used the Dark Angel Talon flyer for my lightnings. They look great and are chepaer :p

5. Corax can stand up to most Primarchs. You just have to be careful about anything with concussive. Really you just have to remember not to fight fair. On the charge, Corax is a monster. But bounce of combat and shoot with YOU WHOLE ARMY and then charge back in. It's the Raven Guard way :)

Trevor Harris said...

Thank you so much for leaving this information active in your blog. As a new RG player it was great to have a place to learn about the army and plan purchases with money being tight for some of us.

Arbiter said...

I've been reading through your blog and all the information you've provided and wanted to get your thoughts on a RG list I've put together. Theme/leaning is more towards drop pod assault and rhino infiltrators using the decapitating strike ROW.

HQ Strike Captain Alverax Maun 140
cameoline cloak 5

HQ Legion Centurion 50
cameoline cloak 5
Legion Chaplain Consul 35
Boarding Shield 10
Melta Bombs 5
artificer armour 10

Elite Mor Deythan Strike Squad 135
Combi-flamer 7 each 35
melta bombs 5
Rhino 35

Elite Mor Deythan Strike Squad 135
Combi-flamer 7 each 35
melta bombs 5
Rhino 35

Elite Legion Rapier Weapons Battery 120
Graviton Cannon 105

Elite Legion Terminator Squad 175
3 additional 30 each 90
grenade harness 10
armed with power axes

Troop Legion Tactical Squad 125
close combat weapons 2 each 20
Rhino 35

Troop Legion Tactical Squad 125
close combat weapons 2 each 20
Legion Drop Pod 35

Troop Legion Tactical Squad 125
10 additional 10 each 100
close combat weapons 2 each 40
power axe 10
artificer armour 10
melta bombs 5

Troop Legion Tactical Support Squad 100
5 additional 15 each 75
plasma guns 15 each 150
Legion Drop Pod 35

Points Total - 2000

For a 2500 point game probably drop the grenade harness and grab another couple of legion terminators with Corax filling the remaining 450 points.

deFl0 said...

So a couple minor suggestions:

1. If you can find the points, dozer blades are solid on the rhinos for mor deythan.
2. What's up the termies? You walking them there? Doesn't look like you have a way to teleport them. And if you did, you would probably want the cheap combi weapons. Oh and you would want something other than the power axes. The power axes really are only soldi if you have some rad grenades on the table. Even then, PFs are usually better. Most the time I run combi melta, chain fist.
3. Grav weapons is a very all in tactic. You are basically betting you will have a target early and you WILL kill it. But you need 6+ grav weapons on the table to stop something like a spartan in it's tracks. So I would suggest, more grav or go down a different tank hunting path.
4. You probably only need the big tac squad and the squad in a pod. Maybe find points to upgrade the rhino unit to another Mor Deythan squad. But you will need to free up an elite slot.

Arbiter said...

Thanks for the advice, I dropped the termies for another rapier graviton squad and took dozer's on the mor deythan rhinos. I did take a look to see if I could maybe kee4p the termies as a 5 man squad and stick them in a drop pod but RaW suggest they can only be put in deathclaw pods for DT which don't exist in the rules unlike the dreadclaws which do. I suspect this is a mistake and typo by FW but some people can be stickler's with the rules so it's easier to drop them than cause a fuss. With the remaining points I decided to go for ccw and artificer armour on the plasma squad so that they were a bit more resilient.

I also realised by math was completely wrong the first time and was over by 180 points; conveniently the cost of a 10 man tact squad with a rhino!

deFl0 said...

Lol. Well it seems like you are getting closer. As for termies you usually see them as 5 in a dreadclaw.

I've also had a lot of luck with 10 in a cestus, but thats a very different list.

Hari Bray said...

Hi Pete,

Im new to HH and am looking to start a RG army starting at 1k points.

I have never played HH and very few 40k games, even after reading your tactics I still have a
hard time adapting your higher point army lists into 1k.

Would you be able to help me out and create a 1k list that can transition easily into something competitive? Would really help me out.

deFl0 said...

Are you planning to play zone mortalis or true HH? Also, @ 1K do you guys play on a 4X6 table or 4x4?

HH is difficult to play at small levels (outside of ZM) because the troop and HQ requirements are pretty point heavy as a percentage of your army. You also have a wide range of units to deal with, it's difficult to handle everything from a leviathan, to termi spam, to mass infantry.

RG do excel at small point levels just because they don't have to pay for transports to get units across the board though. This is less of an advantage on a 4x4 board though.

I would probably run a decap strike which is built somewhere along these lines. (should be roughly around 1K).

- Maun
- Chaplain, boarding shield, melta bomb
- 20 tacs, extra CCWs, sgt powerfist, AA
- 10 tacs naked
- 8 Mor Deythan w 6 combi flamer, 2 melta guns
- Rhino multi melta, bull dozer
- 8 Mor Deythan w 6 combi flamer, 2 melta guns
- Rhino multi melta, bull dozer

Normally, I don't mix focus for units like mor deythan, but at small point costs you have to make your points useful.

The idea of the list is to basically deploy your whole army after your opponent. Hopefully, you can heavily attack one flank and gain location superiority. At 1K, most armies will have a lot of trouble with 20 fearless tacs with 2 base attacks that re roll to hit. Being fearless (and the boarding shield) can tie up a lot of unit or a big nasty unit for most of the game.

Also, remember about their krak grenades. If your group plays that they all get a grenade attack, this is a VERY successful tank hunting units, that most people don't see coming (don't forget your re roll to hits!).

It doesn't look amazing on paper, but remember that it would cost 250+ points to get a 20 man squad across the table usually and fearless is a really powerful rule at 1K. You are also running all scoring unit. So try to stay alive. Use your rhinos as cover for you big squad if you need too. Shield you Mor Deythan from incoming fire.

These units are also really useful for a larger army. So nothing it throw away, although I would suggest magnetizing the weapons on your mor deythan and the multimelta on the rhino ;)

Hari Bray said...

I was planning on playing true HH, I know almost nothing about zone mortalis.

I really have no idea about the table size as I am not part of a gaming grp yet, but from what you have said 4x6 seems like it offers more options for me.

Appreciate the tactics break down, very helpful.

So from here what would be the common points limit to work towards?

Thanks for the help so far.

deFl0 said...

Usually you see tournies at 1500, 1750, 1850, 2000, 2500

Anonymous said...

Hey mate,

Been having a hard time finding reliable up to date competitive advice on 30k.
Your blog has the best 30k tactics around, was wondering if you had any experience with SoH and how to use them well.